March 24, 2004

Ain't Worth Half That Much

from - smijer

I know everybody's just dying to hear what smijer thinks about the missile strike against Hamas leader Yassin on Monday. So, here's my two cents on it (but it ain't worth half that):

I think it could be a good move. Sharon is making moves toward land concessions in the West Bank and Gaza. Simultaneously, he is striking hard against the terrorist leaders. I don't think much of Sharon, but he may be on to something here. If he can start making concessions to the Palestinian people (instead of bulldozing their houses, for instance), while simultaneously pounding the militant leadership, the militants may find themselves with less organizational ability and a less willing pool of recruits. Such a scenario could perhaps even be hoped to reverse the current destructive cycle.

The reason I stick my neck out to share this optimistic opinion is because there may already be evidence that this kind of strategy is working.

That's my half-assed opinion for the day. Make of it what you will.

::

Posted by smijer at March 24, 2004 11:24 AM
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I agree in principle, but I think that it is too early to talk about concessions to anyone. The (group commonly referred to as the) Palestinians support the current attacks, and until that sentiment becomes the exception rather than the rule, then they are complicit in the attacks. I don't support razing neighborhoods, but I sure support cutting them off and making life really uncomfortable.

Israel and the world failed the Palistinians 20 years ago by not ending this then. I'm pessimistic that the sort of death-cult brainwashing they have raised the current generation with can be overcome by anything short of a complete catastrophic failure of Palestinian society.

univar.jpg Posted by Phelps on March 24, 2004 07:22 PM
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The problem is that Hamas war cries have never spurred ALL Palestinians. All you need is one true believer with an overcoat covering a large amount of KABOOM and there is not a pizza parlor in all of Israel that will be safe.

Using helicopter gunships to kill an old man in a wheel chair as he leaves church is not a recipe for peace.

Sharon is a dead man walkin'. Violence always leads to more violence. When you live by the sword you will eventually die by it.

univar.jpg Posted by boortzlistener on March 24, 2004 07:32 PM
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The old man in the wheelchair in this case was directing the attacks, and leading the network that supplies the KABOOM, and recruits teenagers to put in under the over-coat. Blowing him up on the way to church may actually be a move toward peace. That's my thinking on it, anyway.

univar.jpg Posted by smijer on March 24, 2004 08:16 PM
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Nobody supplies the world with more KABOOM or directs more attacks at various points around the globe or has more teenagers on the payroll than the guys at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

That's my thinking on it, anyway.

univar.jpg Posted by boortzlistener on March 24, 2004 09:08 PM
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Couldn't they have just disabled the brakes on his wheelchair? Three missiles is slightly overkill, maybe two or one?

I'll admit though there is something comical about the idea. Kinda reminds me of DNC website anti-Bush ads...

"If Bush gets re-elected, he will fire missiles at old people in wheelchairs"

It's hard to feel sad for a guy who basically invented the palestinian suicide bomber, while himself growing to decrepid old age.

By supplies the world with KABOOM, do you mean the devices that cause KABOOM, or simply KABOOM as the explosion. Because Russia has had us beat for years in supplying the world with weaponry. The majority of KABOOM the terrorists use in the middle east is from Russia, China or Pakistan. Last I checked, we didn't have any 14 year olds serving our country overseas.

univar.jpg Posted by Tim on March 25, 2004 12:13 PM
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Here is an interesting article concerning the suppliers of arms in the world

salt.claretianpubs.org/issues/legad/hennem.html

Palestinians have killed hundreds of Israeli's while Israeli's have killed thousands of Palestinians. There is no reason to believe that the killing will stop.

"Last I checked, we didn't have any 14 year olds serving our country overseas."

That may change if we are blessed with four more years of the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld cabal.

And contrary to a popular myth, nobody hates us because we are free.

univar.jpg Posted by boortzlistener on March 25, 2004 01:49 PM
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In case the article above seems a bit outdated here is another site that you may find interesting

www.fas.org/asmp/fast_facts.htm

univar.jpg Posted by boortzlistener on March 25, 2004 01:54 PM
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Tracing arms sales in general is misleading, since if I sold 10 humvees to egypt, that would be a contract of several million dollars. But Pakistan Russia and China can let thousands of Ak-47s fall into the hands of terrorists and it barely makes a dent in anyone's pocket books.

I'm not worried about expensive tanks and aircraft we sell abroad. I'm worried about the cheap explosives and sub-machineguns made by the Russians and Chinese. The worst terrorist attack was caused with box-cutters and determination.

"That may change if we are blessed with four more years of the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld cabal."

What do you suppose will happen if Bush gets re-elected?

univar.jpg Posted by Tim on March 25, 2004 02:38 PM
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"What do you suppose will happen if Bush gets re-elected?"

Conscription is a near certainty. My tongue-in-cheek remark alludes to the fact that eventually we will run out of 18 year olds to draft if we decide to declare war on every country in the Middle East.

Do not misunderstand me. A Kerry Presidency will not be one whit different. His excuse would be that he did not get us into the fight but.........you can guess the rest.

I would still contend that more people have been killed by weapons supplied by the United States than have been killed by weapons supplied by any other country.

Killing 10,000 or more Iraqi civilians during the invasion and occupation of their country is considered acceptable collateral damage. Killing 4 civilians in a Pizza Parlor bombing is a heinous crime.

Go figure...

univar.jpg Posted by boortzlistener on March 25, 2004 04:01 PM
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"Conscription is a near certainty. My tongue-in-cheek remark alludes to the fact that eventually we will run out of 18 year olds to draft if we decide to declare war on every country in the Middle East."

This statement is entirely absurd... In the grand scheme of things if you think that the US would ever have to conscript 14 year olds, you indeed have some bizarre opinions. We fought World War II without needing to conscript 14 year olds. And given today's larger US population and the difference in technology, the idea is preposterous.

Besides, the US isn't going to war with any other countries in the region, Bush or Kerry. I am a hawk, and I understand the reasons behind the Iraq war. I don't want to invade North Korea, Iran, or any other country in the middle east. With Iraq there was a unique situation, a sadistic mass-murderer who has proven aggressive in the past was gotten rid of. We had all the legality we needed with 12 UN resolutions. He's someone they should've gotten rid of back in 1991, it took until now for it to happen, but its something that needed to be done.

These conspiracy theories that the US is on some international conquest are totally ridiculous. In any case if the administration wants to go after any other countries, I'll be out there with the peace protestors. I supported going after Iraq, but thats as far as this needs to go. Bush I believe understands this, and so does Kerry.

univar.jpg Posted by Tim on March 25, 2004 06:14 PM
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I am going to assume that you do not know the meaning of tongue-in-cheek but laying that aside I never, ever insinuated that 14 year olds would serve in the military. You are the one that brought up that idea. 14 year olds have served in the military (War of Northern Agression / on both sides) and my own father-in-law served in the military at age 15 (he lied about his age and joined the Navy)

As has already been discussed ad nauseum Saddam Hussein ruled Iraq for over 30 years. He fought a war with Iran with the United States as an ally and went to war with Kuwait with the tacit approval of the United States. For the last 12 years of his rule he could not even get in a plane and fly over his country much less threaten his neighbors. Adolf Hitler? I don't think so.

As far as the legality of the war I believe it was Richard "Prince of Darkness" Perle himself who admitted that it was illegal but at this point who gives a damn. The Bush team can make jokes about that, just like the jokes they now make about the Weapons of Mass Destruction. Damn funny unless it was your son or daughter that has died to help keep the world safe from non-existent threats.

Familiarize yourself with the Project for the New American Century and then re-examine your views of the geopolitical aspirations of the United States.

You and I may very well get to discuss those aspirations at the next anti-war demonstration. I'll look for you there ;-)

univar.jpg Posted by boortzlistener on March 25, 2004 08:45 PM
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