Onward Christian Soldiers, dude.

Posted by smijer on February 17, 2005 09:48 AM Link to comment

The military recruits from college campii, in part, because they look for and desire the upper echelon in fields of technology, leadership, speaking, finance, and many other areas.....just like private businesses do. It's easier to train a technology grad to operate the satellites than the local Ricky off the tractor, or to train a college student body president to become a major & lead his troops than the resident West who is singing in the choir.

There is an outreach for a mix in the military and it crosses all lines.

For the most part the church pushes the war while a college is more apt to discuss it and the more it is discussed the more ridiculous it seems.

For the most part? How could that be anything but a wild generalization based on anecdotal evidence? And what have you seen to in order to derive that "the church pushes the war"? I mean, the pope was against it and he is the leader of the catholic church....what churches even put forth some way that they supported the war? Contrary to conventional wisdom, two people (Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell) don't speak for the hundred million church attendees of the nation.

"cross bearing myrmidons"???
[biting tongue]....do you realize how that comes across? Do you think that someone's personal faith is akin to some political stance to them?
I wave my flag. I wear a cross around my neck. I thought I was an American who happened to believe in Christ.....when did that become something to be mocked?

Posted by Ricky on February 18, 2005 09:49 PM Link to comment

Hey, Ricky... for what it's worth in Buck's defense, I attended one of those cross-wearing, flag-waving churches a couple of weeks ago where the leadership and congregation were organizers of Peace Marches instead of myrmidons... (normally I go to a flag-waving, chalice-bearing church that is more apt to organize a Peace March than join the Army of God)... When I read Buck's post, I assumed that he was speaking of the many, many, churches who do treat Bush as a kind of Messianic figure leading the myrmidons on to victory in the 21st Century crusades, not the churches that I've most recently seen the inside of. If your church doesn't cheerlead for Bush's war from the pulpit, then he probably wasn't talking about you.

And, for what its worth, there is something I find worthy of derision about the attitudes of some of those "fundies", despite the fact that most of my beloved family belong to that group. If I tease my wife, sister, mom or dad with a chorus of "onward Christian soldiers", it isn't to mock their faith ... it is to mock an attitude that they get dosed with at their churches. And it isn't to make them feel bad about themselves or to offend them. It's to - without getting all preachy - get them to look at another perspective on the kind of cheerleading for our side of the global jihad (it does take two to tango) that goes on in their prayer meetings.

Posted by smijer on February 19, 2005 07:28 AM Link to comment

I read Buck's post, I assumed that he was speaking of the many, many, churches who do treat Bush as a kind of Messianic figure leading the myrmidons on to victory in the 21st Century crusades

I'm not saying that such a thing exists (I wouldn't deny that anything exists) I'm just wondering what makes you guys say that "many, many" churches spend their Sunday mornings praising George W. Bush and cheerleading the war in Iraq.

The only politickin' I saw last year was from John Kerry while his campaign did the "let's speak at a black church this Sunday" routine.

Posted by RW on February 20, 2005 09:57 AM Link to comment

I was raised in a church like that (only then, it was Reagan who was bigger than Jesus).... I've also visited a couple of them in the Bush years, and get occasional reports from a few friends that attend them now. If you don't mind my curiosity, maybe you could shoot me an e-mail & let me know what denomination you belong to... I always find it interesting to look in on the diversity of religious thought.

Posted by smijer on February 20, 2005 02:10 PM Link to comment

I know a guy personally that was asked to leave his church and never come back because he refused to say the pledge of allegiance to the flag during a church service. Most of my experience with churches is with the fundamental kind. I am very well aware of many people that would argue that it is impossible to be a Christian and a Democrat at the same time. They will mention the pro abortion and gay marriage stance of the Democrats as proof positive. It is quite common to intermingle your politics and your religion. Most of the churches that support the war in Iraq are hung up on support of Israel in that they believe that Israel represents God's chosen people and whatever Israel wants we need to be sure and give them. I know that by making that statement I am automatically labeled as an anti-Semite holocaust denier. I have learned to live with that.
My point about going to the church and avoiding the college campus was that the recruiters are much less apt to have bottles thrown at them in the church parking lot. I believe that the Pope is against abortion and divorce and birth control but I know that not many people really give a damn.
There are 54 churches in my county and God help you if you blaspheme George Bush in any of them.
I believe it was Huey Long who said "when fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross". Given my limited view of the world it seems to me that someday he may be proven right.
A myrmidon is a myrmidon whether he is carrying a cross or just driving a Cadillac. I did not mean to mock.

Posted by Buck on February 21, 2005 09:52 AM Link to comment

smijer,
Southern Baptist.
And that doesn't mean "Southern Baptist Association".

Buck,
you're using anecdotal evidence to make a sweeping generalization. Actually, several of them. It'd be no different than if I were to say "hey, I know a bunch of lazy welfare cheats who vote Democrat" and then type about all the lazy Democrats who rely on welfare and say that "most" do or "many" do. "Many" people who are Republicans pedophiles but it's not right or fair to run with that because "many" Democrats are also pedophiles.
Anecdotal does not equal anything other than your own experiences (general statement). My anecdotal evidence is that the women in Missouri are uglier than the ones in Georgia, but I didn't get to see all that much in the state outside of St. Louis, so it'd be wrong for me to generalize (although I saw several hundred women in St. Louis....it was at a large flea market and was unrepresentative of the state).

Most of the churches that support the war in Iraq are hung up on support of Israel in that they believe that Israel represents God's chosen people and whatever Israel wants we need to be sure and give them. I know that by making that statement I am automatically labeled as an anti-Semite holocaust denier.

No, by making that statement you're showing that you're willing to make up a statement of fact that is based on nothing more than your own projections . If I were to ask you to list the churches that make up your list of "most" I'm betting that you couldn't type very much before doing a search.

Thanks for the note on the non-mockery, btw.

Posted by RW on February 22, 2005 12:33 PM Link to comment

Thanks RW. You are correct in your assessment. I promise to choose my words more carefully in the future if you will promise to kick me in the groin when I get off track.

Posted by Buck on February 22, 2005 02:42 PM Link to comment