March 03, 2005
Found on the Nets
from - smijer
Or, instead of whining, feel free to exercise your right to leave, because frankly, I find it offensive that you want to kick my Father out of society. - Teen Vicky S., quoted hereWhy? Are you actually afraid that it will work? That we can remove your Father from society against his will? Just asking, because I would think you would be more optimistic about his odds... And that should leave little for you to worry over.
Brent's rejoinder must be included (same link)
No one wants to kick your "Father" out of society. You can pray anywhere you want to, go to church everyday, attend any of the millions of Christian churches in America. All of our politicians, practically, share your faith. You have an 85% majority in this country, Vicky. Did you know that?However, it is illegal and unconstitutional to allow your "Father's" earthly representatives run our government as a theocracy.
Well said. If I were God, I'd be rather tired of hearing my followers use me as dishonest rhetorical shield to deflect criticism of their (not my) efforts to blend church and state. In a booming voice from on high, I would tell them, "Quit your bitchin'. You are lucky to live in a country that protects your right to worship. Use it instead of trying to force your beliefs on everybody else." Heck, if I was God, I might even go so far as to include an instruction that went, "And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites [are]: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly."
::Posted by smijer at March 3, 2005 06:22 PM
Interesting quote, as biblical synagogues were not just weekly places of worship; they were the centers of learning for youth, aka the "public" (theocracy-wise) school system.
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Posted by joe on March 3, 2005 08:35 PM Link to comment |
Amen Brother Joe.
The words of Jesus are as radical and non-traditional today as they were 2,000 years ago. The true message of peace, love and tolerance is as unpopular today as it was then. Jesus pissed off the government and the church and paid for it with His life. His message still pisses them off. I guess it always will.
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Posted by Buck on March 3, 2005 10:24 PM Link to comment |
(I also sent this to the editors at Butterfly and Wheels)
I am atheist, but perhaps for not much longer. After reading this article (below), propagandistic as it is, I fail to see viability in my position any longer. I'm wondering what are your thoughts regarding this.
Here is the article:
http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/05/breaking2453432.91875.html
First, I may give up because THERE IS NO VIABLE/SELLABLE ALTERNATIVE TO THEISM ON A SOCIETAL SCALE. What, the theist will ask, do I propose we do? I have, and no atheist/humanist/agnostic etc., has a viable political alternative to a quasi-theistic/democratic society. Atheism is all academic - not public. Explaining the innateness of human morality vs. morality from God, the theist will always choose God's version of morality. It's like choosing between one lick of an ice cream cone and having your very own bannana split. Why on earth would I want just one lick? Atheism, *to the masses*, is therefore not a viable way to live.
You can break it down logically all day long if you like, (have fun). ** But at the end of the day there is no viable solution expelling today's strong theism. Try, for example, writing to the NYTimes why ID is illogical. Even if you are lucky enough to be published (and logically correct), there is no effect, no viability, no purpose. ID and Creationism, false as they are, WORK. They are just too powerful for the masses to pay attention to logic, especially since logic offers no alternatives or appeals to pleasure. Logic doesn't have that 'feel good' air and is, *to the masses*, false.
This lack of alternative, I think, is a major stain and black hole for atheistic thought. Showing that the bible has contradictions is a failure too - I mean, who cares? It doesn't work people.
This, and similar other reasons, are why ID and Creationism ARE powerful arguments FOR God. People will believe and continue to believe in God, especially IF the alternative has no structure, meaning or appeals to pleasure and utopia.
Politicians and theists have a lock on the minds of the people. The coming onslaught of Atheistic viewpoints. Antony Flew's conversion will be highjacked and exploited, adding the the power of (yes, power) of ID's and Creationist arguments.
I'm about to give up...
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Posted by About to leave on March 4, 2005 07:52 AM Link to comment |
A very interesting article but I cannot understand why you would give up any belief you have just because it is not popular. I realize that the religious game is to make as many converts to your way of thinking as possible. I am not sure what you would hope to gain in order to convince anybody that there is no God. That is a hard sell. Hasn't the world for the most part always been theistic? I can easily co-exist with believers and non-believers alike. (admittedly I co-exist with both for the most part by staying the hell away from either) but I am capable of living in a society with people who do not believe everything I believe. In my opinion one of the most unfortunate things about atheism is that it automatically equals immorality in the minds of most but that is the danger when one paints with a broad brush. It is like equating Christianity with decency. Sometimes Christians are decent and sometimes they aren't. If you jump off of the atheist bandwagon which bandwagon will you then climb on and why?
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Posted by Buck on March 7, 2005 03:46 PM Link to comment |
